For instance, inner sight... what a crappy skill, even though it's a level 1 skill it clearly has almost no use even for the early game or late as it is no synergie. Impale is impractical, fend doesn't work with dodges, Valkyrie is not very good unless you spend way to much skill points into her.
Power strike, lightning bolt, the fire arrows and magic arrow. There's so much which could be done to re-balance the Amazon so that there would be more builds to chose between and enjoy.
So the question is what you would do to balance the overlooked skills and aspects of the Amazon? What changes would you do to make the Amazon more enjoyable to play? Everything from just editing some numbers to actually replacing skills and spells to create a more interesting Amazon.
I would love if the Amazon actually had some kind of magic damaging spells. And maybe replace inner sight with an useful passive such as an increased attack speed and run/walk skill.
And maybe to make the immolation arrow a little better, maybe increase the arrow output by 3 or so which would basically make it being a multishot fire arrow skill. Because it is so bad compared to the freeze arrow.
Anyway, tell me what is on your mind. How would you like to enjoy playing the Amazon?|||barking up the wrong tree, pal, the amazon is already enjoyable.
-just because you've never used inner sight doesnt mean no one else has.
-the d/a/e bug is a pain, does it unbalance the zon? no.
-name a summon that doesnt require some amount of points to let it live and be mildly useful.
-magic arrow.
every class has it's "crappy" skills or one point wonders. the amazon has just as many hell-viable builds as any other class, more than some.|||Well, indeed. Diablo 2 is great but there are flaws such as unbalanced skills and what not.
What I am asking here is what you would do if you could re-balance the Amazon?
Obviously you enjoy magic arrow and having an valkyrie who only has normal attack with low end damage and semi-great health.
And for summons, there are summoners. But you cannot be a summoner on your Amazon. It would be horrible. So what is the point of an useless summon for a level 30 spell then? It needs some kind of addition.
And decoy is basically what valkyrie is. A tank. So both of those are basically the same skill.
But if you are telling me you like the Amazon exactly the way it is now, then I guess you have a no business in here.
Edit:
And just for the record, I am not saying that the Amazon is unbalanced. I am asking what you would do to re-balance the Amazon. Even though every class has their useless skill doesn't make it a good thing.
I think too that the Amazon has just as many builds as every other class, but this thread is about the Amazon specifically though I think also the other classes has skills that needs to be either buffed or de-buffed.|||Quote:
And for summons, there are summoners. But you cannot be a summoner on your Amazon. It would be horrible. So what is the point of an useless summon for a level 30 spell then? It needs some kind of addition.
Valkery is far from useless. It's one of the best tanks in the game. only outperformed by grizzly and clay golem. Both of which are from a full summon build and that do no require less points to be effective IIRC.
And yes, it's damage is low though that's not what she's for . She's for tanking on a low life character.
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And decoy is basically what valkyrie is. A tank. So both of those are basically the same skill.
No it's not. There is a huge difference between the two. For one, Decoy is based is much more mana effect, can be controlled perfect and maybe the most important, it's based on your own life making it more interesting for javazons then for bowazon while bowazon prefer valkery.
The d/e/a bug makes this distinction ever more important as javazon suffer from this bug much more.
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But if you are telling me you like the Amazon exactly the way it is now, then I guess you have a no business in here.
Maybe it's you that are in the wrong place. This is the Amazon forum for diablo 2. It's purpose is to discuss amazons as they are now.
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And just for the record, I am not saying that the Amazon is unbalanced. I am asking what you would do to re-balance the Amazon. Even though every class has their useless skill doesn't make it a good thing.
what would you rebalance about her?
Her high level skills are quite good. The lower skills aren't all that great though most of them have a purpose in one form or an other.
Really, in the general skope of diablo 2, the amazon is one of the better characters and does not need to be rebalance.
It could use some changes to some skills. Though a rebalance wouldn't work without considering the other classes.
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I think too that the Amazon has just as many builds as every other class.
Amazon probably have more builds then some other classes.
As for changes, fend needs more damage. Lightning strike needs to beu neffected by next delay and the fireskill tree needs to be re-evaluated. Forinstance by adding some sort of auto hit recovery for the flames and a much longer duration and radius.|||you missed my point on summons. you say valk needs heavy investment to be good, what summon doesnt is my question. i'm not advocating a summoner (btw there is a build for a summon zon), i'm just asking of all the summons in d2, which doesnt need some points to make it "work"? many of them are great on one point, though they leave much to be desired. beefing them up helps considerably, and i'd put just about every summon on the same level; one point alright, more points better.
i said "magic arrow" to answer your question on magic damage. i said nothing more, you're "you must enjoy magic arrow" sounds snide and petulant.
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But if you are telling me you like the Amazon exactly the way it is now, then I guess you have a no business in here.
mods make the descisions on what constitutes off topic, report me. the way you're wording your posts, you seem to think that the zon is nigh unplayable and we should all follow along with you and discuss how to make her better. i disagree and have said so. my post is relevent to your discussion, it just contradicts your own.
there are bugs that affect zons, i dont say there are not, but you are wrong that the zon needs redressing any more than a bunch of other bugs. your list of things that could be added sounds like a kid's christmas wish list. if the passive ias skill or frw skill were added, i think then the zon would be unbalanced. just making something more powerful doesnt make it "balanced".|||the amazon has access to 5 different kinds of damage. that's basically all the damage types in the game albeit the poor magic damage from ma. so there's a lot of options there.
as for wasted skills, there's bound to be one in every class. inferno, arctic blast etc.
as for power strike/lightning bolt, it's all about skill progression. sure, apart from synergy, you won't touch it once you get cs or lf. but it is a lower level skill meant for lower level use. just the same case with firebolt/fireball, ice blast/glacial spike etc.
and inner sight is probably up there with taunt and battle cry as the game's more underrated skills.|||Hmm, I am sorry but am I coming out as an complete asshole here or something?
This was supposed to be a hypothetical friendly discussion about re-balancing the Amazon just for fun. I was curious what you guys think...
And I am not reporting anyone... I am sorry if I came out a little harsh there.
And I also do know the Amazon is not useless, and that her skills such as Valkyrie and what not are not useless either but do you really think that the Amazon is 100% balanced? All I am asking is if you think something would balance the Amazon more in a good way and share it. Anything from longer duration on Slow missile to replacing Jab with something else.
Edit:
Anyway, when you were waiting for 1.13 to be released wasn't it anything you wanted to be changed on the Amazon?
And Zarirazz:
You mention that everyone have a "wasted" skill. So that makes it okay for them to leave such skills on the characters? What I am asking is what you would replace or possibly change that skill to make it a worthwhile skill?
And the skills you compare to lightning bolt and power strike are all skills that are used a lot end game. Firebolt in PvP, Fireball in PvM, Icebolt in PvP and glacial spike in PvM. However, lightning bolt and powerstrike are never used at all. And skill progression? I don't think the skills are balanced when you're supposed to use it for 6 levels before you gain a better attack. Both power strike and lightning bolt should be something unique that may actually prove useful in the end game too, instead of just being two skills you actually never use. I mean, what is the point of those skills then? Don't you agree?
If say both lightning bolt and power strike were edited so that you could actually create a new interesting build around them, I would be all in for that.
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As for changes, fend needs more damage. Lightning strike needs to beu neffected by next delay and the fireskill tree needs to be re-evaluated. Forinstance by adding some sort of auto hit recovery for the flames and a much longer duration and radius.
That's what I am looking for. Thank you for your response.
However, I don't think we are on the same page on the term re-balance. Basically these changes you just mentioned are as far as I am concerned a way to re-balance the Amazon.|||I think whats amiss is that you're calling for the "rebalancing" of what's essentially one of the best-balanced classes in the game. Sure, there's useless skills...but there's only so many things you can do in this game, only so many variables to tweak. Realistically, there isnt a way to make 7 full classes with ~30-40 skills each and have EVERY one be endgame-useful with NO overlap or repetition...not every attack skill can be used to make a build around. For javs, e.g., you have a ranged AoE, a ranged single-target, a melee aoe, and a melee single target/aoe skill. What else would you need? If you improve any of the "useless" skills, you'll just end up making a "useful" one obsolete.
When you compare Zon skills to things like Blessed Hammer, there's nothing thats incredibly OP. There's powerful skills, like LF or CS, but they're situational enough that they're not gamebreaking. Conversely, when you compare Zon to something like the Druid fire tree, there's nothing as fundamentally useless. Likewise, skill point allocation is more or less appropriate; there's nothing that requires most or almost all your skillpoints just to be endgame-effective (a la sorc lightning), and nothing that's full of 1 pt wonders (a la nec curses)
Really, there's maybe only a few tweaks that could be called for (mostly improving spearazon), and even then you'd risk unbalancing the class more than balancing it. The D/E/A bug is really the only thing I think you'd have unequivocal support for (which would incidentally go 80% of the way to fixing spearazon), but thats a bug fix, not a balance change.|||give her runewords
javelins can't use runewords
and if you decide to use a spear with lightning strike then you're still limited in rune selection
there are rune words that apply to polearms, but none that apply to spears (unless you use the ones that apply to "all melee weapons"
I wish there were elemental choices for the javelin and spear
so you could choose to embue your melee weapon with fire or cold or poison or lightning; the way the paladin does|||Inner Sight is not completely useless. At high levels, it's around -1000 BASE defence, which is a pretty significant amount. It's irrelevant to her mainstream PvP skills (GA, assorted Javelin skills) since they auto-hit, but if they did rely on AR, Inner Sight might actually become popular. In PvM, I know a lot of players than opt for level 1 Pentrate and level 15+ Inner Sight.
I'm pretty happy with the Amazon as it is. Also, Blizzard's future Diablo 2 patches will never change the overall skill. With regards to skills, they only tweak numbers and fix bugs. With that in mind, I would like:
1. Removal of Penetrate/arrow skill/Plague Javelin bug.
2. Slight to moderate increase in Magic Arrow's damage.
3. Significant increase in Exploding Arrow/Immolation Arrow damage.
4. Significant decrase in Impale's animation speed. Decrease percent chance of durability loss.
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