Thursday, April 12, 2012
M'avinas -> viable? Which build?
[:1]Hello,
I just returned to D2 a few weeks ago.
Since then I made a Asn with full Nats Set... which sucks and a full IK-barb... which rocks!
Now I'm thinking about creating a full M'avinas Amazon.
Is this set any good? Maybe compared to the useless Natalyas and the great IK set?
Which build should I aim at when wearing the full set?
Which items should I use in the spare slots?
Thanks in advance!|||I used Mav's set on a FA / strafer. Was quite viable, although perhaps not as fast a killer as a Windforce build.|||I went for Freezing Arrow/Strafe aswell. Quite viable and very fun build to play with. I don't remember exactly what i put in the other slots, though I almost certainly went with Eye of Etlich amulet for the +skill and extra cold duration. Zon torches are not expensive to get either. Pretty much you want to fill for resists and life, though the set itself already gives you plenty of everything, it's an easy task. Gore Rider boots is useful for killing bosses for the added Crushing Blow...|||fa/strafe
and make sure you got 120 overall ias to reach a strafe.bp.
ammy-hl
rongs-raven and a leech ring
boots-wt
merc is the tricky part though. insight/infinity/reapers/pride a2 nm offensive
or also a faith rogue
i havent really tested all these options to give a good advice. insight doesn't refill fast enough and pride is very expensive.infinity might be a good option.|||Speaking of M'avina's: I know that most of the set won't be available until at least Act II Hell (and some of it at Act IV/V Hell). However, I am wondering where the best odds of me getting set items comes into play, and who I should make runs on to maximize my chances of getting the various set items? I'm operating mostly off the 1.10 Treasure Class and the 1.10 SuperUniques tables here on the site, but I'm not sure if that information is now totally obsolete and fallen by the wayside.|||Nat's set does suck, I'd rate the viability of the sets something like this:
Very viable:
Tal Rasha
Immortal King
Somewhat viable:
M'avina
Not viable: (not viable meaning significantly worse than equivalently difficult to acquire uniques/runewords/partial sets)
Aldur
Natalya
Griswold
Even the "not viable" ones can work with some fanageling, and a willingness not to be "uber."
As for M'avina in particular, I tend to agree with others that a strafe/FA build is a pretty good way to go.
Maybe slightly off topic but who the heck thought it was a good idea for Nat's boots to be anything other than myrmidon greaves? I mean the set still would suck even if they were, but it shows an obscene lack of thought on the part of the design team.|||Easymode.
20 Freezing Arrow
20 Cold Arrow (Synergy)
There, you have a main attack.
10-20 Penetrate.
You want your arrows to actually hit stuff. Attack Rating is good. Aim for 8-10K.
If you're using an Infinity mercenary, you can ignore penetrate.
+1 Strafe [Up to 6 after adders]
+1 Multiple Shot [6-10 after adders]
+1 Pierce
+1 Decoy
+1 Valkyrie [Up to 17 after adders]
If you're using KB, you can strafe/fire most monsters into a wall and have little use for a real Valkyrie.
If you're not using KB, spend more in Valkyrie so she can tank for you and also deal some physical damage.
The set itself has a lot of item bonuses, but it does miss out on a few things that I like: Life Leech, Mana Leech (It has some, but I'd aim for enough to keep FA going).
Strafe breakpoints that are important:
46% IAS 10/3
80% IAS 9/3
Regular attack breakpoints:
56% IAS, 10 frames
89% IAS, 9 frames
Out of the box, the set grants 70% IAS. I do suggest getting to the 9 frame normal attack bp, it's pretty clutch.
Open spots: 2 armor sockets, 1 weapon socket, 2x rings, amulet, boots.
Some combination of those should get you everything you need - at a glance I'm not really sure of which combo I like better, so...
2x Ravenfrost (Mana, Cold, AR)
Highlord's Wrath (9/3, 9 frame attacks!)
Cold Facets -> Helm & Armor (Damage!)
Perfect Skull -> Bow (Leech!)
War Traveler OR Marrowwalk (Bone Prison your friends in with Lister...)
Stats:
STR: Just enough (mind the set bonuses...)
DEX: A lot. Everything else.
VIT: Hardly any.
ENR: Zip.
I built this character, but I did use Buriza instead of the set (didn't have it...). I think it will work out great.|||Quote:
Nat's set does suck, I'd rate the viability of the sets something like this:
Very viable:
Tal Rasha
Immortal King
Somewhat viable:
M'avina
Not viable: (not viable meaning significantly worse than equivalently difficult to acquire uniques/runewords/partial sets)
Aldur
Natalya
Griswold
Even the "not viable" ones can work with some fanageling, and a willingness not to be "uber.".
Griswold set is special, it is either perfect or useless depending on your build.|||Quote:
Griswold set is special, it is either perfect or useless depending on your build.
I agree. Also, his post makes no mention of Trangs set
On topic, I have played a FA zon using full mavs and it's pretty good.|||Quote:
I agree. Also, his post makes no mention of Trangs set
On topic, I have played a FA zon using full mavs and it's pretty good.
how do you guys rate the necro set? not sure if i should try to complete mine
Don't want to change subjects, just asking
I just returned to D2 a few weeks ago.
Since then I made a Asn with full Nats Set... which sucks and a full IK-barb... which rocks!
Now I'm thinking about creating a full M'avinas Amazon.
Is this set any good? Maybe compared to the useless Natalyas and the great IK set?
Which build should I aim at when wearing the full set?
Which items should I use in the spare slots?
Thanks in advance!|||I used Mav's set on a FA / strafer. Was quite viable, although perhaps not as fast a killer as a Windforce build.|||I went for Freezing Arrow/Strafe aswell. Quite viable and very fun build to play with. I don't remember exactly what i put in the other slots, though I almost certainly went with Eye of Etlich amulet for the +skill and extra cold duration. Zon torches are not expensive to get either. Pretty much you want to fill for resists and life, though the set itself already gives you plenty of everything, it's an easy task. Gore Rider boots is useful for killing bosses for the added Crushing Blow...|||fa/strafe
and make sure you got 120 overall ias to reach a strafe.bp.
ammy-hl
rongs-raven and a leech ring
boots-wt
merc is the tricky part though. insight/infinity/reapers/pride a2 nm offensive
or also a faith rogue
i havent really tested all these options to give a good advice. insight doesn't refill fast enough and pride is very expensive.infinity might be a good option.|||Speaking of M'avina's: I know that most of the set won't be available until at least Act II Hell (and some of it at Act IV/V Hell). However, I am wondering where the best odds of me getting set items comes into play, and who I should make runs on to maximize my chances of getting the various set items? I'm operating mostly off the 1.10 Treasure Class and the 1.10 SuperUniques tables here on the site, but I'm not sure if that information is now totally obsolete and fallen by the wayside.|||Nat's set does suck, I'd rate the viability of the sets something like this:
Very viable:
Tal Rasha
Immortal King
Somewhat viable:
M'avina
Not viable: (not viable meaning significantly worse than equivalently difficult to acquire uniques/runewords/partial sets)
Aldur
Natalya
Griswold
Even the "not viable" ones can work with some fanageling, and a willingness not to be "uber."
As for M'avina in particular, I tend to agree with others that a strafe/FA build is a pretty good way to go.
Maybe slightly off topic but who the heck thought it was a good idea for Nat's boots to be anything other than myrmidon greaves? I mean the set still would suck even if they were, but it shows an obscene lack of thought on the part of the design team.|||Easymode.
20 Freezing Arrow
20 Cold Arrow (Synergy)
There, you have a main attack.
10-20 Penetrate.
You want your arrows to actually hit stuff. Attack Rating is good. Aim for 8-10K.
If you're using an Infinity mercenary, you can ignore penetrate.
+1 Strafe [Up to 6 after adders]
+1 Multiple Shot [6-10 after adders]
+1 Pierce
+1 Decoy
+1 Valkyrie [Up to 17 after adders]
If you're using KB, you can strafe/fire most monsters into a wall and have little use for a real Valkyrie.
If you're not using KB, spend more in Valkyrie so she can tank for you and also deal some physical damage.
The set itself has a lot of item bonuses, but it does miss out on a few things that I like: Life Leech, Mana Leech (It has some, but I'd aim for enough to keep FA going).
Strafe breakpoints that are important:
46% IAS 10/3
80% IAS 9/3
Regular attack breakpoints:
56% IAS, 10 frames
89% IAS, 9 frames
Out of the box, the set grants 70% IAS. I do suggest getting to the 9 frame normal attack bp, it's pretty clutch.
Open spots: 2 armor sockets, 1 weapon socket, 2x rings, amulet, boots.
Some combination of those should get you everything you need - at a glance I'm not really sure of which combo I like better, so...
2x Ravenfrost (Mana, Cold, AR)
Highlord's Wrath (9/3, 9 frame attacks!)
Cold Facets -> Helm & Armor (Damage!)
Perfect Skull -> Bow (Leech!)
War Traveler OR Marrowwalk (Bone Prison your friends in with Lister...)
Stats:
STR: Just enough (mind the set bonuses...)
DEX: A lot. Everything else.
VIT: Hardly any.
ENR: Zip.
I built this character, but I did use Buriza instead of the set (didn't have it...). I think it will work out great.|||Quote:
Nat's set does suck, I'd rate the viability of the sets something like this:
Very viable:
Tal Rasha
Immortal King
Somewhat viable:
M'avina
Not viable: (not viable meaning significantly worse than equivalently difficult to acquire uniques/runewords/partial sets)
Aldur
Natalya
Griswold
Even the "not viable" ones can work with some fanageling, and a willingness not to be "uber.".
Griswold set is special, it is either perfect or useless depending on your build.|||Quote:
Griswold set is special, it is either perfect or useless depending on your build.
I agree. Also, his post makes no mention of Trangs set
On topic, I have played a FA zon using full mavs and it's pretty good.|||Quote:
I agree. Also, his post makes no mention of Trangs set
On topic, I have played a FA zon using full mavs and it's pretty good.
how do you guys rate the necro set? not sure if i should try to complete mine
Don't want to change subjects, just asking
Delirium the greatest Strafe zon helm?
[:1]I decided to make a zon and I had a lem ist io and a 3 soc helm on a mule. So I make it and start using it on my strafe zon. Confuse goes off so mucb why don't I hear more people talking about this great helm? Monsters start attacking each other which takes pressure of your merc and valk.|||eh, there are better ways to get crowd control on a strafer. there are hardly any other good mods that apply to a ranged character on it; 2 skills you dont need and ctc confuse. most people like to get their leech on their hat and there are numerous good hats for that. it's better on your merc where the mind blast, and terror go off too. plus no one likes to turn into a doll.
for crowd controlling hat on a strafer, i prefer face of horror. it at least has big strength and some res.|||It's a very good helm for a strafer. It's annoying on most characters since the CTC morph is incredibly annoying when you get hit a lot, but a well played strafer almost never gets hit.
The reason I never use it is because I never play a pure strafer, as I find a combination of Multi/Strafe/GA works much better. When using anything other than strafe, the lack of IAS compared to an Andy's or a circlet socketed with IAS jewels results in an incredibly slow multishot, especially since as a strafer you wont have much IAS gear. Not to mention that Andy's has LL which is hugely important.
Really though, I think the reason more people don't use it is because its a safe option (meaning its designed to keep you alive) as opposed to a damage option (kills things faster). In softcore, people are much more concerned with the latter, which means that helms that add killing speed through IAS and Damage jewels are far better. As a hardcore strafer, I would definitely consider Delirium, it may be the greatest HC strafe helm, but for most people its not the case.|||Also, Confuse will overwrite Amp or Decrep, which severely reduces your DPS. And monsters hitting each other dont do nearly as much damage as you hitting them with bonus damage.
for crowd controlling hat on a strafer, i prefer face of horror. it at least has big strength and some res.|||It's a very good helm for a strafer. It's annoying on most characters since the CTC morph is incredibly annoying when you get hit a lot, but a well played strafer almost never gets hit.
The reason I never use it is because I never play a pure strafer, as I find a combination of Multi/Strafe/GA works much better. When using anything other than strafe, the lack of IAS compared to an Andy's or a circlet socketed with IAS jewels results in an incredibly slow multishot, especially since as a strafer you wont have much IAS gear. Not to mention that Andy's has LL which is hugely important.
Really though, I think the reason more people don't use it is because its a safe option (meaning its designed to keep you alive) as opposed to a damage option (kills things faster). In softcore, people are much more concerned with the latter, which means that helms that add killing speed through IAS and Damage jewels are far better. As a hardcore strafer, I would definitely consider Delirium, it may be the greatest HC strafe helm, but for most people its not the case.|||Also, Confuse will overwrite Amp or Decrep, which severely reduces your DPS. And monsters hitting each other dont do nearly as much damage as you hitting them with bonus damage.
Tweaking My WF Build
[:1]So I've been working on several characters since starting up again a month or so again, but I really think my favorite at the moment is my WF Bowazon. As such I'm trying to maximize its power before the ladder reset and was looking for any suggestions.
This is a PvM character only
First my stats.
Strength- 144 (134 required for WF, + 10 from WF, don't want to strength glitch equip on)
Vit- Base
Energy-Base
Dexterity-Rest
I don't really see what I could change with the stats, but any suggestions are still welcome.
Now equipment.
Helm- Andariel's Visage (30 Str, 10% Life Leech, socketed with IAS jewel)
Bow- Windforce (Socketed with Amn)
Gloves- Laying of Hands
Boots- War Travelers
Belt- Razortail
Rings- 2x Ravenfrost (both 19 dex 230+ AR)
Amulet- Cat's Eye (also have Highlords but I like the FRW on this)
Armor- Superior Dusk Shroud Fortitude, 28 res all, lowest life roll.
Switch- Harmony Great Bow (helps with Physical Immunes)
In my stash I have a number of life/AR/Damage/Poison charms, as well as a 16 stat zon torch. I also have an Atma's scarab I can put on if I run into any really nasty physical immune (namely venom lords, their elemental resist is so high that Harmony takes forever)
Merc: A1 Cold Arrow
Weapon- Faith Great Bow (Lvl 14 fanat, 2 skills)
Armor- Treachery (don't remember the base, good for IAS and Fade makes up for Andy's -fres)
Helm- Andy's (8% LL I believe)
This is really where I'm looking for suggestions. I will be rolling another Fortitude in a 15%ed Superior Great Hauberk today so I will get more defense and hopefully a better life roll (plus it looks better). The other fortitude will go to one of my other chars likely, although I would consider using it on my merc if people think I will really need it, but I don't think it would change my killing speed at all really.
As for the other equipment I'm definitely open to other ideas. I think Fortitude is a given. I will not sub out the WF for a Faith GMB since this is a WF build. I had a shael in the WF before the Amn (was using Dracs but switching to LoH gave me the IAS but lost me some leech), but if my calculations are correct I hit the last multishot/guided arrow breakpoint with my current setup (with fanat on) so I don't need a Shael. Any other options for socketing, as I feel I could get away with only the LL from Andy's? I would love a Jah for the ITD but I don't think I want to pay that much for one. Any other ideas?
I'm pretty sure LoH and War Travs are the best bet for this build, I used Gores for a bit but I prefer the War Travs slightly. Razortail likewise is sort of a necessity for 100% Pierce. I'm looking for a decent Ias/ED jewel for my Andy's as well. I could get a CTA on switch but I get hit so rarely health isn't really an issue, just trying to increase kill speed. Ideally I would upgrade the Torch, the RFs and get an Anni, but those are all obvious things, I'm more looking for problems with my build.
Finally Skills:
This could actually probably use more fixing than my equip. I am a multishot zon mostly, so don't suggest switching to Strafe (also having Faith and not using multishot is just a plain waste).
I have +5 to all skills I believe (torch + Andy's), I will list the hard points spent though. I'm level 86 with all skill quests done, so that's 97 hard points
Jav/Spear: None
Passive/Magic:
1 in all prereqs
? Critical Strike (I don't remember exactly how many, but I think I hit 59% after + skills)
1 in each of Dodge/Avoid/Evade (+ skills brings them to 6 which is fine)
4 in Pierce (+ skills brings to lvl 9 which is 69% which gives 100% with Razortail)
20 Valk
10 Decoy?
20 penetrate
Bow/Xbow:
1 in all prereqs
15 multishot (+ skills brings me to 20)
20 guided arrow (used for single monsters/bosses)
1 Strafe (+ skills brings to 6 which gives max 10 arrows)
The rest of my points will probably go into decoy.
Any ideas what to change with this? Since my Valk is my only tank and I have low health she needs to be maxed and have a decent decoy synergy. Very little can kill her. Any other ideas though?
Any help/ideas/suggestions would be greatly appreciated, even if its only a tiny tweak.
Thanks in advance|||There is not really much to suggest on this build, you pretty much have the optimum setup available. Your skill placement is all correct, and your obviously going for a dexazon build which works great sinct your using cat's eye (25 dex) and 2 ravenfrosts. With a max level of penetrate you should not have any attack rating problems so I feel that the ignore target defense of the Jah would be a waste as hitting standard monsters should not be a problem and it doesn't work against bosses.
To really max out your damage you can do a couple things, if you think you can do without the amn in the windforce, switch it out for an ohm, that will provide a nice 50% on your weapon, although ohm is still fairly expensive, another option is put a ed/ias jewel in your weapon, and then you can take the ias jewel out of your helm and put something else useful. If you feel you still want some element of crushing blow you can throw a ber in the windforce, but once again slightly costly.
Cheap alternative? Put a nef in for knockback, or an eth for -25% target defense, which in fact does work against bosses if only at half efficiency.|||Well I was figuring with the Jah I could respec and not have to worry about penetrate, which would give me a few more points for decoy and a higher strafe. But yes it is quite pricey.
I'm looking for a nice ED/IAS jewel, but they are reasonably expensive to very expensive, and chances are it would go in my helmet. Ohm is ok but since WF already has like 250% ED its effects arent as great. Ber is interesting to help with bosses, but this char isn't much of a boss killer no matter how you set it up (minimal MF too).
Eth is interesting but I think I prefer the Amn. If I can get a very good dual leech ring I could sacrifice one RF and maybe consider one, but as you said I don't really have problems hitting. Nef would be useless since WF has built in Knockback.
Thanks for the suggestions though, I suppose I've just gotta find some nice jewels to fully tweak it.
Also, that new fortitude I said I was rolling came out with the Max life roll and 29 res. Essentially perfect and in possibly the perfect armor for my build. SWEET!|||Forgot about the built in knockback of windforce, so yes Nef would be pointless, you could use the Jah and respec like you suggest but as I said it wouldn't help you hit bosses, if your not worried about running bosses then the ber is also useless, as you only really need the crushing blow for them. Your original post made it seem like you could get by without the amn which is why I suggested the rune change. I still think Ohm will probably be the best choice, I know 50% doesn't seem like much, but since its in your weapon the base number your multiplying against will make the overall damage numbers higher.
Weapon with 250% ed * dex bonus * Fanac bonus * Fort bonus * (LOH demon bonus if applies) versus a weapon with 300% ed with all those bonuses could turn out to be a pretty sizable number.|||For a pure MS zon, I'd go with Highlords for the amulet. You have Harmony on switch for when you need to cover ground, and the ~30% DS you get from Highlords will add a lot more to your DPS than the 25 dex.
Also, like he said, you dont need Amn on your bow, find something to boost your physical damage. Check your stated CTH in the LCS, with all your stats and Faith merc it should be pretty close to 95% already, which is essentially what you'd get with Eth or Jah, so it'll be up to you if you think you'll get more DPS by boosting your damage or your CTH.|||I tried Highlords for a while, but due to the way CS and DS are compounded 30% DS is equivalent to adding only about 12 to my chance to do double damage. Now that is significant but I don't think it makes up for the FRW and Dex bonus.
I think I'm going to socket an Ohm. That should be an increase of about 1/7th of my damage which is quite significant.
One last thing Pyro, when you calculate damage the Bonuses from Fort/Fanat/Loh/Dex are added together, not multiplied. Just a heads up (the only one I'm not sure about is Dex)|||Scollin i am under the impression that if DS fails then it rolls CS or the other way around. If you were to switch war travelers for gores and cats eye for highlord you would have around a 60ish % chance to CS and a 45ish % chance to DS throw in some 20 ias crafted GG gloves and a ber rune in your windforce and your looking at also having a 45 ish % chance to CB.|||Quote:
Scollin i am under the impression that if DS fails then it rolls CS or the other way around. If you were to switch war travelers for gores and cats eye for highlord you would have around a 60ish % chance to CS and a 45ish % chance to DS throw in some 20 ias crafted GG gloves and a ber rune in your windforce and your looking at also having a 45 ish % chance to CB.
Ya that is how it works. But like I said the formula would be
Total CS= Cs (60%) + (1-CS)*(DS)
= 60% + 40%(30%)
=60% + 12%
which is why I said it effectively adds 12 percent.
I don't really think I need the crushing blow, its only a major help against bosses and this char is not an effective boss runner no matter what I do (resists and health are far too low|||Sorry, I should have been more clear in my formula through the use of paretheses, I know that all sources of off weapon ED get added together and then multiply against the weapon damage. With already a 60% chance of double damage from critical strike, I agree with your position that adding a highlords would not be that efficient of a use of the amulet slot.
This is a PvM character only
First my stats.
Strength- 144 (134 required for WF, + 10 from WF, don't want to strength glitch equip on)
Vit- Base
Energy-Base
Dexterity-Rest
I don't really see what I could change with the stats, but any suggestions are still welcome.
Now equipment.
Helm- Andariel's Visage (30 Str, 10% Life Leech, socketed with IAS jewel)
Bow- Windforce (Socketed with Amn)
Gloves- Laying of Hands
Boots- War Travelers
Belt- Razortail
Rings- 2x Ravenfrost (both 19 dex 230+ AR)
Amulet- Cat's Eye (also have Highlords but I like the FRW on this)
Armor- Superior Dusk Shroud Fortitude, 28 res all, lowest life roll.
Switch- Harmony Great Bow (helps with Physical Immunes)
In my stash I have a number of life/AR/Damage/Poison charms, as well as a 16 stat zon torch. I also have an Atma's scarab I can put on if I run into any really nasty physical immune (namely venom lords, their elemental resist is so high that Harmony takes forever)
Merc: A1 Cold Arrow
Weapon- Faith Great Bow (Lvl 14 fanat, 2 skills)
Armor- Treachery (don't remember the base, good for IAS and Fade makes up for Andy's -fres)
Helm- Andy's (8% LL I believe)
This is really where I'm looking for suggestions. I will be rolling another Fortitude in a 15%ed Superior Great Hauberk today so I will get more defense and hopefully a better life roll (plus it looks better). The other fortitude will go to one of my other chars likely, although I would consider using it on my merc if people think I will really need it, but I don't think it would change my killing speed at all really.
As for the other equipment I'm definitely open to other ideas. I think Fortitude is a given. I will not sub out the WF for a Faith GMB since this is a WF build. I had a shael in the WF before the Amn (was using Dracs but switching to LoH gave me the IAS but lost me some leech), but if my calculations are correct I hit the last multishot/guided arrow breakpoint with my current setup (with fanat on) so I don't need a Shael. Any other options for socketing, as I feel I could get away with only the LL from Andy's? I would love a Jah for the ITD but I don't think I want to pay that much for one. Any other ideas?
I'm pretty sure LoH and War Travs are the best bet for this build, I used Gores for a bit but I prefer the War Travs slightly. Razortail likewise is sort of a necessity for 100% Pierce. I'm looking for a decent Ias/ED jewel for my Andy's as well. I could get a CTA on switch but I get hit so rarely health isn't really an issue, just trying to increase kill speed. Ideally I would upgrade the Torch, the RFs and get an Anni, but those are all obvious things, I'm more looking for problems with my build.
Finally Skills:
This could actually probably use more fixing than my equip. I am a multishot zon mostly, so don't suggest switching to Strafe (also having Faith and not using multishot is just a plain waste).
I have +5 to all skills I believe (torch + Andy's), I will list the hard points spent though. I'm level 86 with all skill quests done, so that's 97 hard points
Jav/Spear: None
Passive/Magic:
1 in all prereqs
? Critical Strike (I don't remember exactly how many, but I think I hit 59% after + skills)
1 in each of Dodge/Avoid/Evade (+ skills brings them to 6 which is fine)
4 in Pierce (+ skills brings to lvl 9 which is 69% which gives 100% with Razortail)
20 Valk
10 Decoy?
20 penetrate
Bow/Xbow:
1 in all prereqs
15 multishot (+ skills brings me to 20)
20 guided arrow (used for single monsters/bosses)
1 Strafe (+ skills brings to 6 which gives max 10 arrows)
The rest of my points will probably go into decoy.
Any ideas what to change with this? Since my Valk is my only tank and I have low health she needs to be maxed and have a decent decoy synergy. Very little can kill her. Any other ideas though?
Any help/ideas/suggestions would be greatly appreciated, even if its only a tiny tweak.
Thanks in advance|||There is not really much to suggest on this build, you pretty much have the optimum setup available. Your skill placement is all correct, and your obviously going for a dexazon build which works great sinct your using cat's eye (25 dex) and 2 ravenfrosts. With a max level of penetrate you should not have any attack rating problems so I feel that the ignore target defense of the Jah would be a waste as hitting standard monsters should not be a problem and it doesn't work against bosses.
To really max out your damage you can do a couple things, if you think you can do without the amn in the windforce, switch it out for an ohm, that will provide a nice 50% on your weapon, although ohm is still fairly expensive, another option is put a ed/ias jewel in your weapon, and then you can take the ias jewel out of your helm and put something else useful. If you feel you still want some element of crushing blow you can throw a ber in the windforce, but once again slightly costly.
Cheap alternative? Put a nef in for knockback, or an eth for -25% target defense, which in fact does work against bosses if only at half efficiency.|||Well I was figuring with the Jah I could respec and not have to worry about penetrate, which would give me a few more points for decoy and a higher strafe. But yes it is quite pricey.
I'm looking for a nice ED/IAS jewel, but they are reasonably expensive to very expensive, and chances are it would go in my helmet. Ohm is ok but since WF already has like 250% ED its effects arent as great. Ber is interesting to help with bosses, but this char isn't much of a boss killer no matter how you set it up (minimal MF too).
Eth is interesting but I think I prefer the Amn. If I can get a very good dual leech ring I could sacrifice one RF and maybe consider one, but as you said I don't really have problems hitting. Nef would be useless since WF has built in Knockback.
Thanks for the suggestions though, I suppose I've just gotta find some nice jewels to fully tweak it.
Also, that new fortitude I said I was rolling came out with the Max life roll and 29 res. Essentially perfect and in possibly the perfect armor for my build. SWEET!|||Forgot about the built in knockback of windforce, so yes Nef would be pointless, you could use the Jah and respec like you suggest but as I said it wouldn't help you hit bosses, if your not worried about running bosses then the ber is also useless, as you only really need the crushing blow for them. Your original post made it seem like you could get by without the amn which is why I suggested the rune change. I still think Ohm will probably be the best choice, I know 50% doesn't seem like much, but since its in your weapon the base number your multiplying against will make the overall damage numbers higher.
Weapon with 250% ed * dex bonus * Fanac bonus * Fort bonus * (LOH demon bonus if applies) versus a weapon with 300% ed with all those bonuses could turn out to be a pretty sizable number.|||For a pure MS zon, I'd go with Highlords for the amulet. You have Harmony on switch for when you need to cover ground, and the ~30% DS you get from Highlords will add a lot more to your DPS than the 25 dex.
Also, like he said, you dont need Amn on your bow, find something to boost your physical damage. Check your stated CTH in the LCS, with all your stats and Faith merc it should be pretty close to 95% already, which is essentially what you'd get with Eth or Jah, so it'll be up to you if you think you'll get more DPS by boosting your damage or your CTH.|||I tried Highlords for a while, but due to the way CS and DS are compounded 30% DS is equivalent to adding only about 12 to my chance to do double damage. Now that is significant but I don't think it makes up for the FRW and Dex bonus.
I think I'm going to socket an Ohm. That should be an increase of about 1/7th of my damage which is quite significant.
One last thing Pyro, when you calculate damage the Bonuses from Fort/Fanat/Loh/Dex are added together, not multiplied. Just a heads up (the only one I'm not sure about is Dex)|||Scollin i am under the impression that if DS fails then it rolls CS or the other way around. If you were to switch war travelers for gores and cats eye for highlord you would have around a 60ish % chance to CS and a 45ish % chance to DS throw in some 20 ias crafted GG gloves and a ber rune in your windforce and your looking at also having a 45 ish % chance to CB.|||Quote:
Scollin i am under the impression that if DS fails then it rolls CS or the other way around. If you were to switch war travelers for gores and cats eye for highlord you would have around a 60ish % chance to CS and a 45ish % chance to DS throw in some 20 ias crafted GG gloves and a ber rune in your windforce and your looking at also having a 45 ish % chance to CB.
Ya that is how it works. But like I said the formula would be
Total CS= Cs (60%) + (1-CS)*(DS)
= 60% + 40%(30%)
=60% + 12%
which is why I said it effectively adds 12 percent.
I don't really think I need the crushing blow, its only a major help against bosses and this char is not an effective boss runner no matter what I do (resists and health are far too low|||Sorry, I should have been more clear in my formula through the use of paretheses, I know that all sources of off weapon ED get added together and then multiply against the weapon damage. With already a 60% chance of double damage from critical strike, I agree with your position that adding a highlords would not be that efficient of a use of the amulet slot.
PvP Ice zon? Help!
[:1]So I'm bored and trying to think of a build I've never built yet, and this one came to mind. I've been doing a bit of planning (I feel like it'd be a good idea to hybridize it to some extent, part GA part ice) and the big question comes down to this:
Cold arrow has an effect where, aside from the flat cold damage dealt, it converts a percentage of your physical damage to cold. At high levels this can get up to around 90% conversion. Is it better to use a high damage set-up such as Faith GMB, etc, and optimize the elemental damage conversion of cold arrow, or to go for the straight up flat cold damage of Freezing Arrow and use Ice in a mat bow? Will Ice's %damage increase affect the converted damage done by cold arrow? I know it also has a -enemy resistance effect, but if I use cold arrow instead of freezing it's sort of pointless because it's really hard to do high physical damage with Ice. Also something to take into account is whether or not Ice/Freezing arrow's flat damage is affected by attack rating. I seem to recall seeing somewhere that the flat damage dealt by elemental arrows is not AR-based, but I would assume that the converted damage dealt by Cold Arrow is.
P.S. This is not a "Can I make this build work effectively?" question. I know it's a ridiculous build and likely to get slammed by 90% of people I meet. I'm resigned to that fact.|||use ice gmb, a 60ias armor, andyface, cats/highlord, 1 raven 1 bk, 20ias kb gloves
it works well, �just use freezing arrow in pvp
|||or a mat bow, that works to 
|||Yeah, I was about to say that mat would work a lot better than gmb for freezing arrow. How do you solve the mana issues? Just keep a buttload of mana pots in your belt?|||I'm not sure how happy people are going to be with your holy freeze aura while dueling, but I'm assuming that since your using freezing effects its going to be mainly bm/public duels. I really dont know how the conversion factor applies when using ice arrow so I really can't put too much input on that. It either has to convert a portion of your base physical damage, or a portion of your overall physical damage, I'm not sure which. That should however be affected by any cold %damage modifiers you have I would assume. Overall though I think your damage output from a high level synergized freezing arrow would outweigh the damage of cold arrow easily anyway so maybe it doesn't matter.
Usually in PVM those that use freezing arrow heavily rely on an insight polearm on their merc for mana, but since your dueling you will have to rely on an abundance of mana potions, and since you shouldn't be using health potions in duels anyway, it shouldn't be too bad.
Since your going split, guided arrow/frozen arrow you could actually have Faith on one weapon slot and ice on switch, that way you can rattle off a few guided arrows at a distance and then when they get to close switch to your ice to slow them down so you can get out of danger, rinse and repeat until its over (assuming they don't have teleport, which is a pretty bad assumption) Not a bad idea but not sure if the slowing will help you any with everyone using enigmas anyway.|||Yeah, I know people get miffed about Holy Freeze, but honestly I'm an ice zon in a pvp game, I think they can cut me some slack considering how weak the character is in the first place. I was considering the faith/ice combo, but I'm not sure I want to give up my cta. Health is a good thing to have. I might keep a faith stashed for people who try to sorb me. I think that FA and GA complement each other nicely because guided has the range to keep you out of danger, but freezing arrow can't be blocked by conventional means (at least the ice damage can't).
Edit: So right now the gear and skill setup is looking like this:
60 ias armor
35 ias andy's
dungo's
aldur's boots
bk/raven
20 ias kb gloves
Ice mat bow/Windforce on switch (Windforce actually does more damage than faith at higher levels, and with all the absurd amounts of ias I have I don't need the fanat much)
Cat's Eye
9x bowa gcs
Max freezing arrow, max cold arrow, max guided arrow (ice arrow doesn't add to damage, only freeze duration) rest goes into passives.
Cold arrow has an effect where, aside from the flat cold damage dealt, it converts a percentage of your physical damage to cold. At high levels this can get up to around 90% conversion. Is it better to use a high damage set-up such as Faith GMB, etc, and optimize the elemental damage conversion of cold arrow, or to go for the straight up flat cold damage of Freezing Arrow and use Ice in a mat bow? Will Ice's %damage increase affect the converted damage done by cold arrow? I know it also has a -enemy resistance effect, but if I use cold arrow instead of freezing it's sort of pointless because it's really hard to do high physical damage with Ice. Also something to take into account is whether or not Ice/Freezing arrow's flat damage is affected by attack rating. I seem to recall seeing somewhere that the flat damage dealt by elemental arrows is not AR-based, but I would assume that the converted damage dealt by Cold Arrow is.
P.S. This is not a "Can I make this build work effectively?" question. I know it's a ridiculous build and likely to get slammed by 90% of people I meet. I'm resigned to that fact.|||use ice gmb, a 60ias armor, andyface, cats/highlord, 1 raven 1 bk, 20ias kb gloves
it works well, �just use freezing arrow in pvp
|||or a mat bow, that works to |||Yeah, I was about to say that mat would work a lot better than gmb for freezing arrow. How do you solve the mana issues? Just keep a buttload of mana pots in your belt?|||I'm not sure how happy people are going to be with your holy freeze aura while dueling, but I'm assuming that since your using freezing effects its going to be mainly bm/public duels. I really dont know how the conversion factor applies when using ice arrow so I really can't put too much input on that. It either has to convert a portion of your base physical damage, or a portion of your overall physical damage, I'm not sure which. That should however be affected by any cold %damage modifiers you have I would assume. Overall though I think your damage output from a high level synergized freezing arrow would outweigh the damage of cold arrow easily anyway so maybe it doesn't matter. Usually in PVM those that use freezing arrow heavily rely on an insight polearm on their merc for mana, but since your dueling you will have to rely on an abundance of mana potions, and since you shouldn't be using health potions in duels anyway, it shouldn't be too bad.
Since your going split, guided arrow/frozen arrow you could actually have Faith on one weapon slot and ice on switch, that way you can rattle off a few guided arrows at a distance and then when they get to close switch to your ice to slow them down so you can get out of danger, rinse and repeat until its over (assuming they don't have teleport, which is a pretty bad assumption) Not a bad idea but not sure if the slowing will help you any with everyone using enigmas anyway.|||Yeah, I know people get miffed about Holy Freeze, but honestly I'm an ice zon in a pvp game, I think they can cut me some slack considering how weak the character is in the first place. I was considering the faith/ice combo, but I'm not sure I want to give up my cta. Health is a good thing to have. I might keep a faith stashed for people who try to sorb me. I think that FA and GA complement each other nicely because guided has the range to keep you out of danger, but freezing arrow can't be blocked by conventional means (at least the ice damage can't).
Edit: So right now the gear and skill setup is looking like this:
60 ias armor
35 ias andy's
dungo's
aldur's boots
bk/raven
20 ias kb gloves
Ice mat bow/Windforce on switch (Windforce actually does more damage than faith at higher levels, and with all the absurd amounts of ias I have I don't need the fanat much)
Cat's Eye
9x bowa gcs
Max freezing arrow, max cold arrow, max guided arrow (ice arrow doesn't add to damage, only freeze duration) rest goes into passives.
Dexterity for a Fishyzon?
[:1]Hello - I saw in the fishyzon guide that you want enough dex to be able to mount your gear, and so that you don't poke out your eye with your shield..
I'm a fishyzon using Moser's with 2 Perfect Diamonds in it for res.. I have enough dex to handle my gear, but what sort of block % should I aim for?
I tried doing some searching but wasn't able to find what I was looking for - If I completely missed it I do apologize|||Without pumping Dex to attempt max block, I'd say just enough for your gear if you're using mossers. Even with just your gear requirements met, you should still be able to get between 50-60% max block. Just remember it's 1/3 while you run.|||Quote:
I have enough dex to handle my gear, but what sort of block % should I aim for?
There's really only two possible answers to that question for any character. Either max block, or get just enough dex for gear.
The reason is that block chance increases linearly with dex, but survivability increases asymptotically with block chance (although the asymptote is not at max block). As such dex points spent near max block have a much higher return on investment than dex points spent at lower block numbers.
Investing in dex purely to raise block, if you aren't going all the way to max, is a poor investment.
As for whether or not to max block on a fishy, IMHO it can be a good idea if you plan to use a shield with high base blocking. Fishys spend a fair amount of time in melee, and often don't get valk. With stormshield I would definitely max block. With mosers... meh, I could go either way. It is 10% lower blocking so it is going to take more dex.
I don't really see that much point in mosers, you need to be resist capped with a bow for taking on gloams, so having a resist shield paired with your java doesn't make a lot of sense. Better to use stormshield (max block), or even spirit, lidless, rhyme, or splendor (no max block).
I'm a fishyzon using Moser's with 2 Perfect Diamonds in it for res.. I have enough dex to handle my gear, but what sort of block % should I aim for?
I tried doing some searching but wasn't able to find what I was looking for - If I completely missed it I do apologize|||Without pumping Dex to attempt max block, I'd say just enough for your gear if you're using mossers. Even with just your gear requirements met, you should still be able to get between 50-60% max block. Just remember it's 1/3 while you run.|||Quote:
I have enough dex to handle my gear, but what sort of block % should I aim for?
There's really only two possible answers to that question for any character. Either max block, or get just enough dex for gear.
The reason is that block chance increases linearly with dex, but survivability increases asymptotically with block chance (although the asymptote is not at max block). As such dex points spent near max block have a much higher return on investment than dex points spent at lower block numbers.
Investing in dex purely to raise block, if you aren't going all the way to max, is a poor investment.
As for whether or not to max block on a fishy, IMHO it can be a good idea if you plan to use a shield with high base blocking. Fishys spend a fair amount of time in melee, and often don't get valk. With stormshield I would definitely max block. With mosers... meh, I could go either way. It is 10% lower blocking so it is going to take more dex.
I don't really see that much point in mosers, you need to be resist capped with a bow for taking on gloams, so having a resist shield paired with your java doesn't make a lot of sense. Better to use stormshield (max block), or even spirit, lidless, rhyme, or splendor (no max block).
Ideas for poison/fend zon
[:1]Starting up with a new and different kind of build always seems more exciting then the typical standards so I created a new amazon to play around with, originally I was going to go with a all spear kind of team/play for pvm. I saw something like this on here before and thought it would be good fun having myself, a valkery, and the merc all using big pokey sticks running around stabbing people to our hearts content. The skill set up was going to look something like this:
20 fend
20 valkery
20 decoy
Rest filled in the passives to fill out gaps and some in a lightning skill possibly for the tough physical immunes.
Yes, I am very aware of the glitch with fend and that the passives will cause all remaining attacks in the chain to miss, but jab just doesn't cut it, and impale is way to slow, so without using elemental skills fend is it, and I am very partial to this build using a tough valkery as it wouldn't be a cool build without one.
Moving on though, after progressing through and reaching hell mode I determined that just stabbing everything probably wasn't going to cut it so it would be good to weaken the masses with something powerful but allow me to still stab all I wanted. Lightning skills take up too many skills to be extremely powerful, and I would probably end up just throwing tons of lightning instead of actually stabing like I orginally intended. So with that in mind I decided on poison as the way to go. It only requires 2 skills to max out the damage, does great damage over time, and has a timer there by actually physically limiting the number I can throw so I can get back to the real action of tanking with a big stick. So in that interest I am currently arranging my skills to end up with this:
20 poison Javelin
20 plague Javelin
20 fend
20 valkery
Rest in prereq's, some spread around the rest of the passives
Once again as mentioned before I know about the glitch and I'm currently working with it, its not that bad as long as you do seperate clicks instead of holding down the button continuously (annoying but more effective).
Stats are pretty standard:
str: enough for gear (lycanders)
dex: enough for gear (lycanders)
vit: rest
energy: none
Right now my gear setup looks like the following:
Weapon 1: Eth Titans Revenge
Shield: Up for debate, possibly SS, or spirit (both more str), currently a unique spiked shield found in normal.
Weapon 2: Lycanders Ceremonial Pike (would really like to get either an up'd one or an eth one, or both, although they are hard to come by on Non-ladder without paying a lot), could possibly switch this with an ebotd pokey stick (recommendations welcome)
Helm: Shako with 4/5 die psn facet
Armor: Bramble Wyrmhide 44% psn (thanks Queen Mebd)
Amulet: Cats Eye (for dex and frw)
Ring 1: BulKathos (4% ll)
Ring 2: Ravenfrost
Belt: Tal Rasha's (for dex currently, recommendations?)
Gloves: Rare gloves (2 passive skills, 3 life leach, 20 ias iirc, switch to trangs for psn damage?)
Boots: Waterwalks (for dex, maybe gore riders?)
Currently around level 68 or so, no where near finished obviously. I believe I have a low torch for her, but no anni so this may fill in some stats.
Mercenary, Act 2 offensive merc for the might aura, haven't even really considered his gear too much as of yet, but I would say a pride polearm would do wonders for the physical damage but once again is difficult to get on non ladder, other options include ebotd for damage, or reapers for decrep. Also not opposed to changing him to a defiance or holy freezer merc if others think that would be more beneficial then a might aura. Also looking for helm/armor suggestions.
Right now I think his setup is:
Helm: Tal's helm
Armor: Shaftstop
Weap: Big rare pokey stick
Strategy is pretty simple, get a nice big group together, throw in a plague Javelin or two and then run in and fend all remaining.
Any input is greatly appreciated, I know crawlingdeadman said he would put in some input from a different thread a while back so it will be interesting to see what he has to say.
Thanks for reading!|||You're right to ask cdm for advice, he's got way more experience with amazons than most of us. I can offer some ideas based on a couple types of pvm 'zons I've had (strafer, pure cs/fury, and toying around with a plauge/fury at present).
While it doesn't take a ton of points in light skills to work well (my gal has plague/poison topped off, all the passives, and only fury and cs maxed while dumping the meager remainder in bolt), it may be spreading things a bit thin trying to go with poisons, solid fend, and fury without really insane gear.
That said you might be able to free up a few points from valk; most people recommend hitting slvl 17 with gear, as that's when she gets all the fancy goodies (technical term I know). I'd think you might want penetrate close to maxed (depending on what your ar is looking like) to be hitting with fend consistently, and critical to a nice level to get the most out of those hits. I wonder how if it could actually work going dodgeless as to not bug out fend. Between Waheed, a decoy, valk, yourself, and a nice amount of leech from Titan's and that BK it might be viable, and if not there are always respecs.
As far as gear goes, I can't make a ton of recommendations for what to use fend-wise. Though I would think you'd want to keep the merc rocking might for the damage boost (it was nice to have a little boost to jab on the cs-er for immunes). If you can snag an eth Reaper's for him that'd be pretty swell for the leech and ctc decrep, you could even just pile on ias gear like Treachery to keep him swinging and hopefully cursing faster.
The one thing I can say with certainty is don't drop the ias off gloves unless you want to be throwing like a grandma (to borrow that one from cdm). If you can find a pair of 2 jav 20 ias goodies rare or even 3 jav 20 ias magical gloves could work nicely too for the poison boost. It's been ages since I've looked at ias tables, but an ias jewel in the hat or shield could be nice if it bumps you up a frame, just don't quote me there.
That's my two cents and then some. Best of luck with the 'zon, she's definitely a unique one. Be sure to update us with what works and how she does!|||Hey Queen, thanks for responding! You are probably right about the valkery since once she hits level 17 she gets her final weapon upgrade which adds probably the most amount of damage for the skill point investment and still survive pretty easily (then again how hard is it to recast, really).
Right now 2 passive with 20 ias is the best I got and the life leach is just a bonus on top of it, I wasn't sure if the additional 25% psn damage from trangs would be worth giving up the ias and skills. Right now I think I'm sitting at 40 ias with my gear with titans equiped with the cats eye and gloves putting me at the 11 frame (30 ias, with -10 weap) breakpoint for throwing. Depending on what shield I use it would probably be more than worth it to put an ias jewel in either the shield or helm as it will get me to the 10 frame (52 ias, with -10 weap) breakpoint. The last one for thworing according to the calc 9 frame with 89 ias which I can't get without major gear change ups. In terms of fend I think 5 frames is the last one but I don't know how much IAS is needed for that, so I might stick a shael in the lysander's If I don't pick up something else.
If I lose the Dodge, then I lose the valk which I guess can be done as it avoids the bug all together but standing in a giant crowd stabbing seems pretty dangerous without it unless I have some major life leach and I'm only standing at 7% so I would need a change in the weapon.
I could switch the cat's Eye to a Highlords for the deadly strike that way I don't have to invest as much in critical to make it effective. Either that or if I pick up a Arioc's that has 50% deadly strike off the bat, and has skills and psn damage which will just make it that much better. Might have to stick an Amn in to survive though.|||Serious brain fart on my part; keep the dodges and don't skimp out on the valk.
Also thought of something else regarding speeds, since poison and especially plague javelin aren't skills that get rapid-fired, just build around whatever fend speed is comfortable (and if it bumps you up another throw bp that's a bonus). I get the feeling picking the right fend weapon may be a matter of testing and finding which one fits your preference.|||Poison and physical... not the best of friends later on. Undead have a reputation of being resistant to both. Might want a strategy around that.|||Well, looking at the resistances of most monsters, a lot of the monsters are physical/poison resistant but not completely immune, except for of course wraith's and the such. Of course boss packs/champions/uniques will most likely present a problem. I guess the mose efficient and easiest way to address the issue would be to get a hold of a reapers for the mercenary for the ctc decrepify. The 5% ctc from atma's for amp just doesn't seem like a high enough percent for the problems I'll most likely face. Besides the decrep will not only help me but the merc and valk too in terms of survival.|||okay, i went to type a response here with my thoughts several weeks ago and it turned into a wall of text. my zon turned out vastly different than what i'd planned for her and very different than what you did. still, here's what i did, apologies for the wall of text.
20 fend
20 valkery
20 decoy
Rest filled in the passives to fill out gaps and some in a lightning skill possibly for the tough physical immunes.
Yes, I am very aware of the glitch with fend and that the passives will cause all remaining attacks in the chain to miss, but jab just doesn't cut it, and impale is way to slow, so without using elemental skills fend is it, and I am very partial to this build using a tough valkery as it wouldn't be a cool build without one.
Moving on though, after progressing through and reaching hell mode I determined that just stabbing everything probably wasn't going to cut it so it would be good to weaken the masses with something powerful but allow me to still stab all I wanted. Lightning skills take up too many skills to be extremely powerful, and I would probably end up just throwing tons of lightning instead of actually stabing like I orginally intended. So with that in mind I decided on poison as the way to go. It only requires 2 skills to max out the damage, does great damage over time, and has a timer there by actually physically limiting the number I can throw so I can get back to the real action of tanking with a big stick. So in that interest I am currently arranging my skills to end up with this:
20 poison Javelin
20 plague Javelin
20 fend
20 valkery
Rest in prereq's, some spread around the rest of the passives
Once again as mentioned before I know about the glitch and I'm currently working with it, its not that bad as long as you do seperate clicks instead of holding down the button continuously (annoying but more effective).
Stats are pretty standard:
str: enough for gear (lycanders)
dex: enough for gear (lycanders)
vit: rest
energy: none
Right now my gear setup looks like the following:
Weapon 1: Eth Titans Revenge
Shield: Up for debate, possibly SS, or spirit (both more str), currently a unique spiked shield found in normal.
Weapon 2: Lycanders Ceremonial Pike (would really like to get either an up'd one or an eth one, or both, although they are hard to come by on Non-ladder without paying a lot), could possibly switch this with an ebotd pokey stick (recommendations welcome)
Helm: Shako with 4/5 die psn facet
Armor: Bramble Wyrmhide 44% psn (thanks Queen Mebd)
Amulet: Cats Eye (for dex and frw)
Ring 1: BulKathos (4% ll)
Ring 2: Ravenfrost
Belt: Tal Rasha's (for dex currently, recommendations?)
Gloves: Rare gloves (2 passive skills, 3 life leach, 20 ias iirc, switch to trangs for psn damage?)
Boots: Waterwalks (for dex, maybe gore riders?)
Currently around level 68 or so, no where near finished obviously. I believe I have a low torch for her, but no anni so this may fill in some stats.
Mercenary, Act 2 offensive merc for the might aura, haven't even really considered his gear too much as of yet, but I would say a pride polearm would do wonders for the physical damage but once again is difficult to get on non ladder, other options include ebotd for damage, or reapers for decrep. Also not opposed to changing him to a defiance or holy freezer merc if others think that would be more beneficial then a might aura. Also looking for helm/armor suggestions.
Right now I think his setup is:
Helm: Tal's helm
Armor: Shaftstop
Weap: Big rare pokey stick
Strategy is pretty simple, get a nice big group together, throw in a plague Javelin or two and then run in and fend all remaining.
Any input is greatly appreciated, I know crawlingdeadman said he would put in some input from a different thread a while back so it will be interesting to see what he has to say.
Thanks for reading!|||You're right to ask cdm for advice, he's got way more experience with amazons than most of us. I can offer some ideas based on a couple types of pvm 'zons I've had (strafer, pure cs/fury, and toying around with a plauge/fury at present).
While it doesn't take a ton of points in light skills to work well (my gal has plague/poison topped off, all the passives, and only fury and cs maxed while dumping the meager remainder in bolt), it may be spreading things a bit thin trying to go with poisons, solid fend, and fury without really insane gear.
That said you might be able to free up a few points from valk; most people recommend hitting slvl 17 with gear, as that's when she gets all the fancy goodies (technical term I know). I'd think you might want penetrate close to maxed (depending on what your ar is looking like) to be hitting with fend consistently, and critical to a nice level to get the most out of those hits. I wonder how if it could actually work going dodgeless as to not bug out fend. Between Waheed, a decoy, valk, yourself, and a nice amount of leech from Titan's and that BK it might be viable, and if not there are always respecs.
As far as gear goes, I can't make a ton of recommendations for what to use fend-wise. Though I would think you'd want to keep the merc rocking might for the damage boost (it was nice to have a little boost to jab on the cs-er for immunes). If you can snag an eth Reaper's for him that'd be pretty swell for the leech and ctc decrep, you could even just pile on ias gear like Treachery to keep him swinging and hopefully cursing faster.
The one thing I can say with certainty is don't drop the ias off gloves unless you want to be throwing like a grandma (to borrow that one from cdm). If you can find a pair of 2 jav 20 ias goodies rare or even 3 jav 20 ias magical gloves could work nicely too for the poison boost. It's been ages since I've looked at ias tables, but an ias jewel in the hat or shield could be nice if it bumps you up a frame, just don't quote me there.
That's my two cents and then some. Best of luck with the 'zon, she's definitely a unique one. Be sure to update us with what works and how she does!|||Hey Queen, thanks for responding! You are probably right about the valkery since once she hits level 17 she gets her final weapon upgrade which adds probably the most amount of damage for the skill point investment and still survive pretty easily (then again how hard is it to recast, really).
Right now 2 passive with 20 ias is the best I got and the life leach is just a bonus on top of it, I wasn't sure if the additional 25% psn damage from trangs would be worth giving up the ias and skills. Right now I think I'm sitting at 40 ias with my gear with titans equiped with the cats eye and gloves putting me at the 11 frame (30 ias, with -10 weap) breakpoint for throwing. Depending on what shield I use it would probably be more than worth it to put an ias jewel in either the shield or helm as it will get me to the 10 frame (52 ias, with -10 weap) breakpoint. The last one for thworing according to the calc 9 frame with 89 ias which I can't get without major gear change ups. In terms of fend I think 5 frames is the last one but I don't know how much IAS is needed for that, so I might stick a shael in the lysander's If I don't pick up something else.
If I lose the Dodge, then I lose the valk which I guess can be done as it avoids the bug all together but standing in a giant crowd stabbing seems pretty dangerous without it unless I have some major life leach and I'm only standing at 7% so I would need a change in the weapon.
I could switch the cat's Eye to a Highlords for the deadly strike that way I don't have to invest as much in critical to make it effective. Either that or if I pick up a Arioc's that has 50% deadly strike off the bat, and has skills and psn damage which will just make it that much better. Might have to stick an Amn in to survive though.|||Serious brain fart on my part; keep the dodges and don't skimp out on the valk.
Also thought of something else regarding speeds, since poison and especially plague javelin aren't skills that get rapid-fired, just build around whatever fend speed is comfortable (and if it bumps you up another throw bp that's a bonus). I get the feeling picking the right fend weapon may be a matter of testing and finding which one fits your preference.|||Poison and physical... not the best of friends later on. Undead have a reputation of being resistant to both. Might want a strategy around that.|||Well, looking at the resistances of most monsters, a lot of the monsters are physical/poison resistant but not completely immune, except for of course wraith's and the such. Of course boss packs/champions/uniques will most likely present a problem. I guess the mose efficient and easiest way to address the issue would be to get a hold of a reapers for the mercenary for the ctc decrepify. The 5% ctc from atma's for amp just doesn't seem like a high enough percent for the problems I'll most likely face. Besides the decrep will not only help me but the merc and valk too in terms of survival.|||okay, i went to type a response here with my thoughts several weeks ago and it turned into a wall of text. my zon turned out vastly different than what i'd planned for her and very different than what you did. still, here's what i did, apologies for the wall of text.
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